March 7, 2016

Spellthief

Roguish Archetype
Comments from the Finger: Literally the most requested subclass ever, right here. 

**I completely forgot to credit Casey Williams, who collaborated with me on this one! I'm sorry Casey!**

Spellthief

Spellthieves weave skill with arcana to drain the magic of their foes and turn their powers against them. Your well of magical energy is shallow compared to that of a wizard or sorcerer, and you lack the brute strength of a fighter, but you have the skills to adapt to any challenge, and the ability to steal the tools necessary to adapt when you are without them.

Spellthief Spellcasting Table
 Rogue Level  Cantrips Known  Spells Known  Spell Slots  Slot Level 
3rd2321st
4th2421st
5th2421st
6th2421st
7th2522nd
8th2622nd
9th2622nd
10th3722nd
11th3822nd
12th3822nd
13th3933rd
14th31033rd
15th31033rd
16th31133rd
17th31133rd
18th31133rd
19th31234th
20th31334th

Spellcasting
When you reach 3rd level, you gain the ability to cast spells. See chapter 10 for the general rules of spellcasting and chapter 11 for the sorcerer spell list.
     Cantrips. You learn two cantrips from the sorcerer spell list. You learn another sorcerer cantrip of your choice at 10th level.
     Spell Slots. You gain two spells slots, and an additional one at 13th level. Your spell slots are all if the same level, and always of the highest level that you can cast, as shown on the Spellthief Spellcasting Table. You regain any expended spell slots when you finish a short or long rest.
     Spells Known. You know three 1st level spells from the sorcerer spells list of your choice. The Spellthief Spellcasting Table shows when you learn more spells of 1st level or higher. Each of these spells must be at a level for which you have spell slot.
     Whenever you gain a level in this class, you can replace one of the sorcerer spells you know with another spell of your choice from the sorcerer spell list. The new spell must be of a level for which you have spell slots.
     Spellcasting Ability. Charisma is your spellcasting ability for your sorcerer spells, since you command the power of magic though your force of personality. Use your Charisma score whenever a spell refers to your spellcasting ability. In addition, you use your Charisma modifier when setting the saving throw DC for a sorcerer spell you cast and when making an attack roll with one.

Spell save DC = 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Charisma modifier

Spell attack modifier = your proficiency bonus + your Charisma modifier

Spell Stealing
Starting at 3rd level, when you Sneak Attack a creature that has the Spellcasting or Innate Spellcasting features, you can forgo half Sneak Attack damage dice (rounded down) to siphon away their arcane energy. If you do so, you gain a single filled spell slot of the level you are capable of casting and you temporarily learn one spell of your choice that the creature was capable of casting. This spell must be a level for which you have spell slots. The spell slot you gain and the knowledge of this spell last until you complete long rest. The creature also loses its spell slot, or one use of a spell it is capable of casting, as appropriate.
     The spell slot you gain with this feature increases in level as you gain levels, as shown in the Spell Level column of the Spellthief Spellcasting Table.
     As a bonus action, you can also take magic from a willing creature within your reach that has the Spellcasting or Innate Spellcasting features. When you do so, that creature expends spell slots whose combined level is greater than or equal to your spell slot level, and you regain an expended spell slot. You can also learn a spell that the creature was capable of casting until you complete a long rest.

Arcane Sight
By 9th level, you can innately detect magical auras. You can cast the spell detect magic as a bonus action without expending a spell slot.

Spellgrace
At 13th level, you can add your proficiency bonus to all saving throws you make against spells that don’t already add your proficiency bonus.

Total Conversion
By 17th level, when you steal a spell, you not only gain a new spell slot, but you also can regain an expended spell slot. Moreover, your target can't cast the spell that you learn from them for 1 minute.



Changelog: 9/22/16: Spellgrace: Clarified that you don't add your proficiency bonus twice

29 comments:

  1. Looks like a blast!

    One thing, though: you might want to change the name of the "Spellcasting" feature if your slots can recharge on a short rest: that could potentially cause some problems with how multiclassing caster classes works. Kinda like how Warlocks don't have "Spellcasting," they have "Pact Magic".

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    1. That might be a good point. I'll have to think for a bit on precisely what to call it.

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    2. What happens with the spell slot pool should a spell thief rogue multi-class into warlock?
      I was trying to add this archetype to Hero Labs with that specific goal on my current character and have run into an issue (perhaps the same thing that Dan mentioned.)
      I can seem to either have the warlock and rogue share a pool that progresses based on their combined levels - which I don't believe to accurate as the Warlock gets his slots from Pact Magic an the Rogue gets his from Spellcasting, but not the traditional Spellcasting feature.

      How do you recommend that I handle this?

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    3. So, I know nothing about Hero Labs, but I can offer the following insight: this class's spellcasting should function basically like a 1/3 caster warlock -- it's not called Pact magic, because that doesn't make any thematic sense (there's no pact being made here.)

      If possible, I would add half the rogue level (rounded down) + warlock level to determine the level and number and level of spell slots you get from the warlock table. If you need to rename this to Pact Magic for Hero Labs to take that the features stack, so be it.

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  2. Another one added to the "Want-to-play" list, I think this is the 20th one now. Awsome, keep up the amaizing work!

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  3. Sounds like a fun play. Doesn't seem as practical as I'd like it to be though. It doesn't fit what a rogue should be doing for the party. I do like the idea, but it probably wouldn't mesh well with the classic four man party set up.
    Now solo and duo campaigns, that's where I see this shining. Oftentimes parties with low amounts of people have problems with casters if they aren't casters themselves, and will often also need to get themselves out of bad situations quickly. This seems like it would be able to do the trick.

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    1. You're correct that this fits exceptionally well in small parties, but I'm less inclined to agree with you on that this doesn't fit in a four man setup. You still get the whole rogue suite of Sneak Attack, Roguish Action, Uncanny Dodge, and Evasion from the base class and, if you manage the right spells, you can cover the interaction / exploration tier through casting. It has a slightly different focus, yes, but I'm pretty sure it'll cover the rogue's job competently. Certainly something to explore in playtesting, though

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    2. Yeah you're right. But it would take a lot of expert level play to pull it off properly.

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  4. I'm actually pretty pleased with the spellcasting method. Not bad, gents. My only balancing question is should for the sake of not inadvertently making the rogue the most versatile caster in the party, do you think that the slot and spell knowledge lasting until a long rest might be a bit too powerful? It is a little incongruent with the rate that you recover spell slots and originally, both lasted an hour.

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    1. I'm not too concerned, no, because the versatility is tempered by the availability of spellcaster enemies, and the limited number of spell slots at a time. I gave this duration a lot of thought, and I'm very happy with it being longer, since it means that stolen spells can be an investment for later in the day. Plus, if you don't run into any spellcasters, it's also no big deal.

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  5. For Spell Stealing feature do you choose the spell slot stolen? If so what happens if an 8th level Spellthief attempts to steal a 2nd level spell slot off someone that has filled/expended all of their 2nd level spell slots?

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    1. As a spellthief, all your spell slots are the same level, like a warlock. You only gain spell slots of that level. If the creature doesn't have any available spell slots or spell uses, the feature fails.

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  6. Hello Finger,

    I have a question that was brought up in my current campaign (from the player currently playing the spell thief). What is actually the difference that total conversion gives?

    If you do so, you gain a single filled spell slot of the level you are capable of casting and you temporarily learn one spell of your choice that the creature was capable of casting. This spell must be a level for which you have spell slots. The spell slot you gain and the knowledge of this spell last until you complete long rest. The creature also loses its spell slot, or one use of a spell it is capable of casting, as appropriate.

    By 17th level, when you steal a spell, you not only gain a new spell slot, but you also can regain an expended spell slot. Moreover, your target can't cast the spell that you learn from them for 1 minute.

    From what we can tell, the only difference is that the target cannot cast the spell for 1 minute after stealing it. Are we looking into this correctly?

    Thanks in advance!

    Regards,
    Casey

    PS: I think you might of forgot something on this class :)

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    1. When you steal a spell from a creature, you get a new spell slot, which is filled. If you had 3 spell slots before, now you have 4. And it's filled, which means you can cast from it before you take a short rest.

      At 17th level, you gain the same spell slot as before and you can also refill a different spell slot that you've cast from. Let's say you have 3 spell slots, but only 1 of them is filled (you've cast two spells.) After stealing a spell, you have a new spell slot (4 slots now) and you've refilled one of your used spell slots (you now have 3 filled spell slots - one was already full, one is totally new, and the last was just refilled.)

      Hope that makes sense. Happy gaming!

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    2. I think this will definitely help clarify our question at the table. I'll check with the player and make sure he doesn't have any other further questions on the class that I wouldn't be able to answer. Thanks again!

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    3. One last question - How long do the extra spell slots last? until short rest?

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    4. Your extra spell slots (which recover on a short rest) last until you take a long rest.

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    5. Your extra spell slots (which recover on a short rest) last until you take a long rest.

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  7. So i'm currently playing this archetype, but i'm confused. Spell stealing doesn't have a number of times you can use it per day. So what is stopping me from just stealing a spell from a caster every single turn? Can I not use it until I use the spell I have stolen? Because if that is not the case I would basically have infinite spell slots while fighting an enemy caster.

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    1. There's no limit, because there's a finite amount of spellcasters, who have a finite amount of spells. This might depend on the campaign, but bases on the Monster Manual, spellcasters are in the vast minority, and you can't expect to be able to take too many spell slots from a caster before they die. Plus, they only last until the end of the day, so if you get too far ahead, you'll be reset by morning.

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    2. Eh, I feel like the rules lawyer types would be able to abuse that too much still. Especially because you could then technically take a warlocks remaining spells if he has any, and then everyone just take a short rest. I'll continue playing with it as is for now though and see if it snowballs out of control or not.

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    3. You can't actually use spell stealing on a warlock, or anyone else who has short rest regenerating spells, because they don't have the spellcasting or innate spellcasting features. Their feature is called Pact Magic. If you rules lawyer things, it should still be fine.

      You could steal spells from a wizard friend, but he'll expend quite a few spell slots.

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    4. Oh! Good to know actually. Thanks for the clarification!

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    5. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  8. For the level 13 ability:

    Do I add my proficiency bonus to the save against a spell even if I am already proficient with that saving throw?

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    1. You don't do it /twice/, but you do add your proficiency bonus to every saving throw you make against spells, even if you're not proficient in that save.

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    2. How it's worded now, RAW you would add it even if you are already proficient. I advise simply adding a clause stating "that doesn't already add your proficiency bonus." to the end.

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  9. How do you determine what level of spell slot the opponent loses?

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